Hey it works for rats.

"My bird IS the word" (mybirdistheword)
10/24/2019 at 13:24 • Filed to: None

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See, they want to make this about rats learning a new skill, when in reality we now have more little, furry oppos. Too many jokes to make here. Off the top of my head-

Rat race

Even rats can dive better than you

To the ratmobile, rodent!

Do derelict rat cars get their wiring eaten by cockroaches?

Wheres the cheese wheel?

Will link in comments in case of kinja

DISCUSSION (22)

My bird IS the word > My bird IS the word
10/24/2019 at 13:25

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-50167812

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > My bird IS the word
10/24/2019 at 13:27

Gives a new meaning to rat rod too

My bird IS the word > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s
10/24/2019 at 13:41

I missed that. I’ll never live it down.

Chuckles > My bird IS the word
10/24/2019 at 13:42

This is why I prefer to drive small cars.

Spanfeller is a twat > My bird IS the word
10/24/2019 at 13:43

Now lets make rats drive on the 405, lets see if that still reduces their stress.

Chariotoflove > My bird IS the word
10/24/2019 at 13:45

Rats are so reliable in what they will do for food that they have been a fantastic tool for behavioral neuro science since forever. At our school, we have TMJ pain researchers that created automated food dispensers and software that will measure how much food the rats can be bothered to try and chew with different levels of jaw pain and with pain treatments. They’re better than mice.

My bird IS the word > Chariotoflove
10/24/2019 at 13:51

I still like to reference the rat utopia experiments like it somehow makes me smarter.

Chariotoflove > My bird IS the word
10/24/2019 at 13:55

It does kinda rub off.

If you haven’t, read Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH . Ostensibly a kid’s book perhaps but also great fantasy for anyone who has ever thought about what experimental rats would be thinking.

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > Chariotoflove
10/24/2019 at 14:00

I remember reading that in middle school. I remember it being good.

Chariotoflove > Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap
10/24/2019 at 14:02

Me too. It was even better when I read it to my daughter after I had been doing developmental neuroscience for a few years and understood what “NIMH” stands for.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Chariotoflove
10/24/2019 at 14:18

How intelligent do you think they actually are? Does it ever give you pause, the idea of using them in experiments like these?

The benefits are clearly there for our race, but it definitely makes me sad that, for example, dogs are still used for this kind of testing. How much less intelligent is a rat than a dog?

I’m a meat eater, and by all accounts pigs are pretty intelligent, so I’m clearly not that conflicted about it...

According to the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), laboratories reported having approximately 67,000 dogs in their care in 2017. The vast majority of dogs were used for research and testing; approximately 6,500 were held or used for breeding.

Many tests on dogs are required by government agencies. For example, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) requires that dogs be used for a 90-day pesticide test and drugs are tested on dogs in order to secure approval from the Food and Drug Administration.

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja: > My bird IS the word
10/24/2019 at 14:44

HEY ELON! You paying attention here?

Uber?

Lyft?

TheRealBicycleBuck > Chariotoflove
10/24/2019 at 15:55

Rats are a lot easier to handle as well. I had to handle both rats and mice when I was working in research. The rats were much easier to work with.

My bird IS the word > This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja:
10/24/2019 at 16:07

Elon's head is already occupied by a hampster on a wheel, no room for rats.

Chariotoflove > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/24/2019 at 16:16

Rats aren’t really very “smart” in the way that people think of as applying reason and judgment . They rely on more basic level conditioning type learning . You can surgically ablate a huge amount of a rodent’s cortex, and they can still go about their day to day functioning just fine. They are used as behavioral models to test things like anti-depressants. However, those tests are essentially assuming that certain rat behaviors represent the state of mind that the analogous behavior would be associated with in a human. That’s a pretty big assumption for an animal that relies primarily on instinct , but it’s all we ethically have.

That said, no one in his/her right mind enjoys doing experimental things to rodents. The conscientious experimentalist takes every possible precaution to reduce pain and suffering. It’s also required to be that way by regulation. I personally do not like causing distress. But here is something to consider. Experimental rats and mice are given warm, safe housing, freedom rom parasites and disease, as much food and water as they want, and in many cases lots and lots of guaranteed sex. Contrast that with the rodent in the wild that has to contend with being cold, starving, and eviscerated by predators like cats or owls. They live much shorter and more painful lives than what we give them. And when we do kill them, it’s quick and painless.

Dogs are another story for me. They have much more personality and I believe are much smarter than rats . I don’t work with them, but I have colleagues that do, mostly beagles . They have much larger heads with dental structures much better suited to dental research. When possible, they are adopted out after the study is completed, but very often they are killed for tissue harvest. At least they are given good quarters to live in and run, and people come play with them.

Here is an easy to read story I found about the intelligence of common animals.

Chariotoflove > TheRealBicycleBuck
10/24/2019 at 16:21

Yeah, rats are easy to handle if they are trained to be handled as they grow up, and it’s certainly worth the investment in time to do it. A cranky rat can really hurt. No one cares about training a mouse to be handled. We just immobilize them and do whatever we want.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Chariotoflove
10/24/2019 at 16:26

The fact that dogs pretty clearly have empathy for members of their “pack” definitely puts them on another level.

It’s a very challenging question:

Is saving one human life worth the lives of XX dogs?

As a dog lover, it’s easy to lean toward no, but if it’s your kid...

Chariotoflove > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/24/2019 at 16:34

As a spinal cord injury researcher, I had trouble doing survival SCI surgery on cohorts of mice. I could definitely empathize when I thought about it. But , as long as I was doing it to help people not have to live for decades in wheelchairs, I dealt with it alright.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Chariotoflove
10/24/2019 at 16:50

I can definitely see that.

Did you choose to go into your field after an injury, or have you been in a wheelchair from a young age? I imagine it’s terribly rewarding for you to work on things that help others avoid or break free from the constraints of their chairs...

Chariotoflove > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/24/2019 at 17:01

I knew I wanted to go into biomedical research from teen years. I got injured half way through college and that kind of focused my interests. It’s rewarding when something comes of it, but it’s also terribly frustrating to keep writing grants to try and stay float between discoveries.

Over the last few years, the SCI project ran dry, and I had to pursue some other opportunities to stay funded. I hope to get back to it, but to some degree you have to go where the money is to feed your family, pay the mortgage, keep tenure. Sometimes it almost feels like mining for gold without any good geological information.

Ultimately the goal is to spend my life making life better for others after me.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Chariotoflove
10/24/2019 at 17:07

Yeah, the grant-writing and -funding part of it really has to be tough. Making the choice to provide for your family is never the wrong decision.

It’s a very noble goal. I’m definitely making life better for my kids, and hopefully others through the organizations I support, but hopefully my 2nd career (or volunteering once I’m retired) can fulfill that desire to do more for others.

Chariotoflove > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/24/2019 at 17:19

I feel like the high tech version of the guy with a cardboard sign at the overpass that says, “will clone for food”. :D

There are many ways to make the world a better place. One of the best ways is one kid at a time. Keep at it!